I have been asked multiple times by members of the local community to do a wright up about the Victory class Star Destroyer. I have put it off for many reasons, but with Rebellion in the Rim coming out we know we getting a Victory Title and I wanted to wait until we had more information about the title itself, but I think I have already delayed it too much and knowing my luck an article will drop showing off the title as soon as this goes up, and since I am wanting more info on the Rebellion in the Rim box this seems like a good way to get FFG to release more, so here is my thoughts on the Victory and how to use it. Oh and this is going to be a long one...
Victories are known for their slow speed, low maneuverability, and lower than expected durability, all negatives, but it had is place in the early days of armada. However since then has fallen quickly out of favor so where does this ship stand now in the current state of the game. Right now the victory occupies an odd spot in the Imperil line up. It was at the start of the game the ship that had the most dice in a single arch, but it was soon became outclassed by the ISD in wave 2. The Victory then was seen occasionally as a cheaper carrier, but then the quasar came out and stole that niche so the victory is in this kind of weird place that if you want a cheap carrier you should just take a quasar as it performs better in that roll, and if you want a gunship/carrier hybrid it is again outclassed in every way by the ISD. Sure it’s cheaper than the ISD but let’s see what the points you save can really get you.
Okay so if we take the cheapest victory and the cheapest ISD what is the point spread? Well 110-73=37 so that is a 37 point saving going bare bones no upgrades. So what can we get with 37 points well we can get quite a few more upgrades we could get a Gozanti with 16 points left over, we could invest that in fighters to round out our fighter wing, but how much do you gain from the extra points vs what you lose out on, that is the big question, and there is something else to consider and that is Strategic adviser.
Oh how I loathe Strategic adviser for many reasons, but he is really pushing out most medium ships from the game. Let’s take our bare bones example, but we tack on Strategic adviser on the ISD our point spread becomes 41 a bigger gap, but still not enough to get anything other than a flotilla some upgrades and or squadrons. So we pay 73 points for one activation while the ISD at 114 gets 2 activations for the cost of 57 points per-activation. If we add in a bare bones flotilla to the VSD we get 2 activations for the cost of 48 points each so it can be more points effective activation wise, but because the limit is 2 flotillas per list it is likely that both list will reach that max and so the 41 extra points don’t mean that much as far as extra ships and activations go. Even if you picked Ozzle as your admiral and take 2 naked flotillas and naked raiders the ISD list would get a total of 9 activations with SA at 400 points on the nose where if we replaced it with a Victory we would be at 8 activations with 41 points left over not enough to get the full 9 activations that the list with the ISD has. If the empire had a cheap non flotilla ship that was costed around the price of the Torpedo hammerhead or the flotilla cap was removed there might be possibilities that the Victory would see more play as the point savings would be more meaningful.
Now the price savings is not all about activations, but if you’re worried about fitting in more activations then downgrading an ISD to a VSD won’t do that for you in the vast majority of cases. You can still take Pryce on your VSD, and that can help in the activation game, but in most cases if you drop your VSD for and ISD with SA you will have the same number of activations. However like said before the points saving could be put to more than just activations, it could be used to upgrade a ship or to take a more expensive ship you would normally not be able to take. When taking a VSD you need to make sure that you are taking it to get value out of your list and that value has to override the value gained by taking an ISD in its place that is generally always the case with any ship, but it practically true with VSDs and it can be hard to do.
Before we go any further lets talk about the current roll of the VSD. It is no longer the cheapest carrier option available to the Empire, but it is still one of the cheapest gunboats so lets start with the VSD II.
This Version is not the type that I am most drawn to as I think it is just a bit too expensive should be like 6ish points less in my option. Though it has some great stuff going for it with the D-caps upgrade quad battery turrets and a con fire it can throw 8 dice at long range the only ship that can top that at long range is a cymoon with the Devastator title. The VSD II roll is a straight up long range sustain damage gunship and if you are taking this guy it is obligatory to take D-caps if you take this ship and don’t take D-caps I don’t know what to say, as far as I am concerned D-caps is a mandatory upgrade on this ship as it gives your ship a “super” turn. It becomes very tempting to invest very heavily into this ship but I feel that is a trap.
We talked a little bit about the VSDs low durability and its low speed and these combined just make it too easy to kill if caught in a bad spot. Because of this I would do my best to keep the cost of your VSD below 100 points as much as possible. Some of my favorite builds for the VSD II are:
Cheepo:
Victory II (85) • Disposable Capacitors (3) • Quad Battery Turrets (5) • Leading Shots (4) = 97 Points
The Trap:
Victory II (85) • Minister Tua (2) • Gunnery Team (7) • Disposable Capacitors (3) • Quad Battery Turrets (5) • Leading Shots (4) • Electronic Countermeasures (7) = 113 Points
Heavy Ions:
Victory II (85) • Disposable Capacitors (3) • Quad Battery Turrets (5) • Heavy Ion Emplacements (9) = 102 Points
Okay so they don’t seem too bad, most are over 100 points and that is 1/4 of your list right there this is the main reason that I don’t really care for the VSD II, because in order for us to have a big enough point difference in place of an ISD we need to be at least 44 points less than they are to take a raider and even the most expensive ISD without a commander is around 150 so the most we could spend and still get another combat ship would be around 106 points and that is just to get a barebones raider. So lets look at these builds compared to some equivalent ISD builds.
Cheepo:
Victory II (85)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Quad Battery Turrets (5)
• Leading Shots (4) = 97 Points
Long range Burst ISD:
ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112) • Spinal Armament (9) • Quad Turbolaser Cannons (10) = 131 Points
Sustain ISD:
Imperial II (120) • Electronic Countermeasures (7) • Leading Shots (4) • Quad Battery Turrets (5) = 136 Points
So the long range ISD can pump out more damage than our cheep VSD, but it really is tied into taking Darth Vader as a commander right now, but when Krennic arrives that will change. It will get its long range burst damage all game long our VSD will get once nice turn. It is only at 34 point difference not enough to get any additional combat ships, even if we added Krennic to the Cymoon it would only be a 42 point difference still not enough to get a combat ship. The Cymoon is even tankier than our VSD as well so really this guy especially once Krennic is out just wins.
Looking at the Sustain ISD its not going to get any long range burst damage it will just deliver consistent damage, but with a higher damage potinal at medium range. For not having that one long range super turn, it is incredibly durable with ECM’s. Really the only thing are cheap ISD bring to the table is that it that it can get that one super turn over this guy, but the sustain damage from this ISD will more than make up for it.
The Trap:
Victory II (85) • Minister Tua (2) • Gunnery Team (7) • Disposable Capacitors (3) • Quad Battery Turrets (5) • Leading Shots (4) • Electronic Countermeasures (7) = 113 Points
The big one:
Imperial II (120) • Captain Brunson (5) • Gunnery Team (7) • Electronic Countermeasures (7) • Leading Shots (4) • Quad Battery Turrets (5) • Avenger (5) = 153 Points
Okay so this is very similar to the first build of VSD just more stuff and its really just a trap, you can get an ISD II that is insanely more durable, has an amazing title and we just have hardly any downside, true its 40 points more, but that is still not enough to get another combat ship.
Heavy Ions:
Victory II (85) • Disposable Capacitors (3) • Quad Battery Turrets (5) • Heavy Ion Emplacements (9) = 102 Points
Cheap long range Heavy ions:
Imperial I (110) • Heavy Ion Emplacements (9) • Quad Battery Turrets (5) = 124 Points
Kuat Craziness:
ISD Kuat Refit (112) • Fire-Control Team (2) • Electronic Countermeasures (7) • Heavy Ion Emplacements (9) • Assault Concussion Missiles (7) = 137 Points
Okay so this one is really just about getting HIEs off at long range. It is mostly paired up with Screed and between D-caps and Quad Battery Turrets it does it fairly consistently. The two ISDs that go toes with this guy we have the cheep ISD-I however it is very dependent on QBTs to get that long rang HIE off. The other has no way to get it to trigger at long range but with the help from a commander it can do some pretty crazy stuff with HIE and ACM. In short this is probably the best way to use the VSD II it is really the only ship in the game that can reliably get HIE off at long range, because of QBTs and if they are not going to work on you current target you can just D-caps. If you don’t want to be limited to screed as your commander, a con fire with QBTs and veteran gunners will work wonders.
Now let’s talk about the VSD I.
it is my favorite of the two mostly because of how cost effective it can be points wise, it is also the only imperil ship to have both an ordnance and turbolaser slot giving it a slight niche. You can keep this guy super cheap, but super effective at what he does, What is his roll, well VSD I are a finisher. They plink damage on at long range and then catch/trap ships to finish them off with one big punch. I have always enjoyed the feeling of trapping/forcing an enemy into close range, so maybe that is why I like the VSD I more I just find it preforms better for the point cost its potential damage on its “super” turn is higher and can still deliver constant long range damage. Here are a few of my favorite VSD I builds:
The Finisher:
Victory I (73) • Ordnance Experts (4) • XI7 Turbolasers (6) • External Racks (3) = 86 Points
The battle carrier:
Victory I (73) • Flight Controllers (6) • Boosted Comms (4) • Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5) • External Racks (3) = 91 Points
Squadron squashier:
Victory I (73) • Agent Kallus (3) • Ordnance Experts (4) • H9 Turbolasers (8) • Ordnance Pods (3) • Warlord (8) = 99 Points
However these rolls are not exclusive to the VSD different versions of the ISD can fill the rolls of the VSD and generally outperform it in every aspect for what in most cases is a fairly inconsequential point increase. The VSD I also has someone else stepping on its toes the GSD practically Demolisher. For the same cost of a naked VSD I you can get a fairly decently upgraded Demolisher.
Gladiator I (56) • Ordnance Experts (4) • External Racks (3) • Demolisher (10) = 73 Points
Victory I (73) = 73 Points
That means if you are taking a VSD I as a finisher/damage dealer it needs to be able to do something that the GSD can’t or you already have Demolisher in your fleet. The main aspect the VSD I has over the GSD is a turbolaser slot and that is key. You might say the VSD has more long range damage potential, but with the Demolisher Title the GSD can technically shot a black dice salvo at you from just beyond long range, so higher long range damage is not really true. Let’s take a look at some builds for the ISD that compete directly with the VSD and point differences.
The finisher:
Victory I (73) • Ordnance Experts (4) • XI7 Turbolasers (6) • External Racks (3) = 86 Points
ISD: avenger boarding trooper’s kuat:
ISD Kuat Refit (112) • Boarding Troopers (3) • Electronic Countermeasures (7) • Leading Shots (4) • External Racks (3) • Avenger (5) = 134 Points
So with this we get our first significant point gap of 48 points meaning we can take a Raider I with ordinance experts. This is why it is best to keep victorys cheap but still effective so the point savings become more meaningful, and is perhaps why I am partial to the VSD I. If the ISD takes SA to even out the activations with our raider we now have a bigger point gap and can take ex racks on the raider, so we now have more overall dice same activations and actually more hull and shielding overall, so it seems like we have out done this ISD. However that is not the case despite having more hull and overall shields We don’t have a greater finishing power nor do we have greater durability. With ECM the ISD can Fairly easily survive two big hits and will die on a third, but the same goes for us one big hit on or raider and its gone, two big hits on the VSD and its gone so our overall durability is about the same, but the finishing power of Avenger and Boarding Troopers is quite latterly insane we simply can’t compete with it even with our VSD and raider, packing so much punch in one go that can’t be negated by tokens is just crazy. I still really like this load out.
The battle carrier:
Victory I (73) • Taskmaster Grint (5) • Flight Controllers (6) • Boosted Comms (4) • Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5) • External Racks (3) = 96 Points
ISD supper carrier:
Imperial I (110) • Taskmaster Grint (5) • Flight Controllers (6) • Expanded Hangar Bay (5) • Boosted Comms (4) • Leading Shots (4) • Quad Battery Turrets (5) = 139 Points
While the quasar defiantly outperforms the VSD in the roll of a carrier, but if you feel that your list needs some more ship to ship firepower then taking a VSD might not be the worst idea ever. however an ISD I loaded out correctly can walk all over the VSD in the battle carrier roll. This ISD load out can push 6 squadrons with Grint and Expanded Hanger bays, that's almost double what the VSD can push. ISD will also get more all around consistent damage with leading shots and QBTs, the VSD is a little more finicky with its damage. its also only a 43 point difference so no extra combat ship for you. I can see the debate to take this though as 43 points in extra squadrons can be pretty substantial.
There is one thing that the VSD I does better than an ISD or a GSD, and that is taking out squadrons. It seems weird to think a VSD would be better at killing squadrons than an ISD but its ture, let’s look.
Squadron squishier
Victory I (73) • Agent Kallus (3) • Ordnance Experts (4) • H9 Turbolasers (8) • Ordnance Pods (3) • Warlord (8) = 99 Points
Squadron ISD I
Imperial I (110) • Agent Kallus (3) • Ordnance Experts (4) • High-Capacity Ion Turbines (8) • H9 Turbolasers (8) = 133 Points
Squadrons ISD Kuat
ISD Kuat Refit (112) • Agent Kallus (3) • Ordnance Experts (4) • Early Warning System (7) • Ordnance Pods (3) = 129 Points
GSD squadron killer
Gladiator II (62) • Agent Kallus (3) • Ordnance Experts (4) • External Racks (3) • Demolisher (10) = 82 Points
Every ISD and the GSD version of the VSD squadron squishier gives up something like a guaranteed accuracy or a second attack with ordinance pods etc. You might think that you give up the chance to score 3 hits on a double brace ace though no, no, no, my friend simply add a red when attacking a double brace ace and as long as you don’t get a blank (25% chance of blank) H-9 to a accuracy, warlord to a double if the blue was a hit 3 damage my friend, and if it’s a blank the blue will always be a hit with H-9 and warlord. Sure the ISD is more durable has more firepower, but simply the VSD is just far more consistent with its flack damage and will get it to stick to scatter aces as well as having the ability to get 3 damage against brace aces more frequently than its counterparts it performs its roll in that regards better than its ISD and GSD counterparts.
So I brought up a lot about the VSD survivability in compassion to the VSD it loses out by default as it is just a slightly weaker ship that fact is only exadurated with the VSDs inability to take a Defensive retrofit, however Tua can be equipped to give it the ability to take a defensive retrofit, again I feel like this is a bit of a trap.
Why well its more points, 9 points generally because we want to take ECM in most cases that Is more points sunk into this ship and ECM will generally at most buy the VSD an extra turn, but its lack of defensive retrofit is not the biggest hindrance to its survival, it is its speed.
There are 4 ships in the game that are limited to speed 2 in the game the MC80 home one, Pelta, Interdictor and the Victory of these 3 can take engine techs to fake speed 3, the Victory is the one that is left out. Without access to speed 3 it makes it very hard for the victory to get out of trouble if it is in trouble. So even with the defensive retrofit it just can’t escape so it still dies, and you have just given your opponent extra points by taking Tua and ECM. The only time I would recommend putting Tua and ECM on a VSD is if it was your flagship, but I recommend against that even if it is your most durable ship you have I would put my commander on a more nibble ship that can avoid and get out of trouble.
So when it comes right down to it why take a VSD over an ISD, well I got 5 reasons for why you might take a VSD: you need a bigger bid, you need more KEY upgrades, you need to round out your squadron wing, you need to upgrade one of your other ships to a “better” ship, it saves you enough points to get a second ship on top of it. The last one is rarer than you would think, but that is why I think it is importin to keep VSDs as cheap as possible. However for the times when you do take a VSD how do you fly it? Well here are a few of the best pieces of advice I can give.
Keep it slow, I mean speed 1, why because it is so important to stay on course and adjusting at speed 1 it is so much easier to correct directional movement at speed one then it is at speed 2 and if you have JJ as commander well it saves you from having to over use him. If you are a VSD II you should almost always be a speed 1, if you are a VSD I you should be at speed one until it is time to get that little extra to pounce into black range when necessary.
Deploy on the Flanks. VSDs should almost always be on the flanks of a fleet. It is tempting to put gunnery teams and run it down the middle, but if you do that your VSD will die 9 times out of ten. If you use it to flank the side and slow roll up you can most of the time stay out of harm’s way, and catch a ship or 2 in one of the later rounds. Deploying on the sides also creates a shepherding effect, in that the VSD forces ships away from it and into the guns of the rest of your fleet or “shepherds” them into in essence a shooting gallery. The other player could simply chose to engage the VSD and in that case the VSD has ships flying into it so it can get its shots off.
Sideswipe engagement. When you do start to close on your target it is best to set up a sideswiping attack let me show you what I mean.
This tactic will almost always give you a double arch, and will give you an escape vector as well to avoid trouble, because once a VSD is in trouble it is very hard to get it out, as we have spoken about.
I want to touch just briefly on the titles available, first we will talk about warlord. Warlord is pretty easily the best title for the VSD as it works on all attacks even thoughts against squadrons in a roundabout way it makes your red dice have 2 faces with a double on it sure it can only be used once per attack, but it can still help your damage output fairly significantly, and you can get some fun combos rolling with it. Like all VSD titles i think it is are overpriced, but it is still quite good.
Corrupter is kind of just there, the VSD is just not the cheap Imperil carrier it once was and this card gets majorly outperformed the quasars Squall title. Sure corrupter can boost speed even if you are engaged, but its also less flexible as it has to be squadrons with the bomber keyword, and Tie Defenders don’t benefit from it, sure the card does not say to a maximum of speed 5, but it’s a ruling based on president as there is no speed 6, so we are left with only Tie Bombers, Firesprays, and tempest squadron its just so limiting this title really should have been a rebel title and then it would probably be good, in fact if independence had this effect and not its current one I bet it would see play as squadrons with the bomber keyword is much less limiting to the rebels.
Lastly we have Dominator, it’s just so darn expensive. It’s a fun card I will give it that and it can be used to super charge both attacks, and if you really want to go crazy you can use this against squadrons as well, but you have to lose shields and it cost 12 points it is a pretty hefty price to pay, and you only can use the ability at close-medium range. It is a fun card and I want it to work but the cost in both points and your shields is just a bit too steep in most cases. I have been working on a dominator list however and have had some success with it. When running Dominator you need to treat engineering commands as confires that will add two blue you should almost never hesitate to spend shields as your job is to kill or/and be killed he should be kept as cheap as possible and that is why I like the VSD I for this guy. I have probably had more success with this card then I deserve but Dominator has started to grow on me as it has performed well for me recently, I am sure all it will take is a good teeth kicking to knock some since back into me, but until then I would recommend this load out:
Dominatior:
Victory I (73) • Ordnance Experts (4) • Dual Turbolaser Turrets (5) • External Racks (3) • Dominator (12) = 97 Points
The VSD can take the Seventh fleet title several individuals have had success with this title, but I am not sure how I feel about it on a VSD it can help with the durability problems, its not a bad choice by any means just requires some very specific fleet builds and you have to sacrifice you title slot and that can be a very valuable slot on any Star Destroyer.
At the end of the day the VSD is just in a weird place too expensive to compete with the Quasar as a strict carrier, as a finisher Demolisher can outperform from both long and close range, and its outclassed in various other rolls by the ISD. We have the niche squadron squishier build, and HIE build, but it’s just not enough to push the VSD onto the playing that often. The savings from taking a VSD and not an ISD is generally not significant enough to warrant it, sure it is case by case, but if you are wanting one more activation in your list you can get it with SA on your ISD. It’s just incredibly hard to justify taking a VSD over something else, though I do believe VSD have a time and place. Is there anything that can be done? Well yes the Victory needs more ways to be played something it can do but the quasar, GSD and ISD can’t.
As mentioned before I do prefer the VSD I to the II because it has the niche of being the only Imperil ship having both an ordnance and turbolaser upgrade slot, but we need more than that. Lets just speculate for a little bit about the new title because I can’t help myself what will it be? Well if I had to put money on it I think it will give the VSD some way to go speed 3 weather that will be though giving it a support teams slot to take engine techs or just strait up giving it the ability to go speed 3, but a lot of cards are not know or spoiled yet from Rebellion in the Rim and who knows maybe there is more than one VSD title, maybe there is one that gives it a fleet command icon, or maybe a title that gives some sort of aura buff to ships around you, something to make the VSD feel unique, and give it a unique role in the fleet.
If the Empire had a cheaper combat ship costing in the 30’s the point savings would mean more as well, and in some cases might be able to squeeze in 2 extra ships meaning you would get more activations then an ISD with SA. Another Idea is that you could have a few dual slot upgrades like ones that take up an ordnance and turbolaser meaning the VSD I would be the only imperil ship capable of taking it. Getting rid of the flotilla cap would also indirectly buff the victory as you squeeze out more activations by taking a victory over an ISD. Also if Demolisher did not exist I think a VSD I would be a much more temping prospect to many players, I am not saying get rid of it but personally I feel it ether needs another nerf or other ships need buffs to balance the power out.
There are plenty of options to help make the VSD more viable and it’s not so much about “fixing” it as it is about making it do something that other ships don’t have the ability to do.
The VSD is an interesting ship, it’s not one that you see often, and for good resin, unfortunately. However they are far from unplayable, and in the right list and with a skilled player flying it they can get some work done. So don’t completely disregard them, I have a feeling that when Rebellion in the Rim drops we will probably see them frequent the table more often at least that is my hope. Until next time have a great week everyone!